A friend introduced me to Hunter and I met her in person a day she was teaching in Bard's MBA program. We start with Limits to Growth, the 30-year update (the book, a synopsis), preparing to talk about her new book, A Finer Future, which follows its tradition. I felt the root of our conversation was responsibility. We know what to do. We don't need more technology. We lack political will -- leadership. I hear it over and over. We cover her history, experience working on sustainability, and the people she's worked with. She works with organizations, in contrast with many environmental groups, though she works to replace them, when appropriate. The big view that got me thinking was the inevitability of the energy transition she expects by 2030. I'm cautiously optimistic about it. You have to hear it in her terms. It's the opening quote in the audio, though listening more will give you the context. I recommend the videos she described Tony Seba (his Colorado Renewable Energy Society (CRES) talk and his World Affairs talk). First, wait until you hear what she says about the economic transition.