021: Emily Ann Peterson, Conversation 2: Turn Off Your Computer, full transcript

February 1, 2018 by Joshua
in Podcast

Emily Ann Peterson

For anyone who listened to Emily’s first conversation thought, “Oh, turning off a computer at night that’s not really that hard.” Having launched a book, it’s a very hard time. It’s extremely stressful. It’s not easy. She still did it. So you’ll hear, despite Emily’s defining environmental differently than I expected her experience was remarkably similar. I think if you’re listening to this in order to take on challenges yourself, I think you’ll have a lot to learn from. Some of the big things you’ll pick up, listen for this that it’s not what you avoid, it’s what you replace it with. So, if you’re thinking, “Oh, I am going to miss out on something,” you don’t just sit there staring at the wall when you’re not say using the computer or traveling or whatever, you’re doing something instead. It’s not how big the challenge is, it’s if you act. Once people act, you start finding out new things you never would have expected before. So, take on a personal challenge. Go to joshuaspodek.com, click on commit to personal challenge, go to emilyannpeterson.com, pick up her book. We also talk a lot about bravery in her upcoming book. And I can tell that her actions come from experience which her book is about. So, listen up for more about bravery, how to learn bravery and what her book is about.


Joshua: I’ve been looking forward to this partly because this is one of the learning experiences for me that it’s not just doing something environmental like I think, but it’s also doing something environmental how you think. So when last we spoke not that long ago you’ve taken on a challenge, you’ve been doing something changing an environment. I wonder if you can share how it’s going.

Emily: Great. The challenge was to you know pick something that I can do over the next week and I chose the very simple task of just turning off, like completely power off my computer, not sleep, just actually shut it down at the end of the night. And that doesn’t effect like global environment as much as it did my personal environment but what I experienced was that because I did do it, first of all…Success there.

Joshua: Not everybody does.

Emily: Success there. But what I noticed was that adding to my ritual of turning off something or closing down my evening or closing down my day by turning off something it made my evening a little bit more meaningful.

Joshua: Interesting, meaningful – that’s a big word.

Emily: Yeah. Because I work from home because I that’s want to do. And there is this sense that like if my computer was off, I actually was not able to quickly hop on and fix something or go back to work really quick. And so, the only device that was available to me after work, after you know quote unquote work was done you know, after like sevenish PM that between the hours of 7:00 PM and going to bed I was not able to like hop on and jump into a big project. So that just meant, it meant a lot to my evenings. I was able to make a longer meal and be more present in the evening even though it was a very, very, very simple task.

The other thing I noticed was that because I attached it to other rituals… So, basically, it was…This is just something I know about habits is that you’re more likely to enforce a habit if you attach that new habit both good or bad to a previously founded routine. So what I attached it to was dinner. So, when I ate dinner before I started to cook dinner I turned off my computer.

Joshua: That’s really early. I mean for me that feels early. I eat dinner and the thought of not getting on the computer afterward is like now you’re making me think… OK, let me get back to you but yeah, that’s a big deal.

Emily: Well, I mean my phone was still on. So, I was still you know like messaging my team and communicating with people. But I basically was like, “No, I don’t need to be working on big massive projects after this time of day.”

Joshua: So, you’re in communication?

Emily: Yeah, I would still be able to communicate, I was still connected and plugged in in like an official capacity but I was not able to dive into a massive project after the hour of like after dinner basically which is I mean if you followed anything of you know, oh my gosh I forgot her last name, Huffington.

Joshua: Arianna Huffington.

Emily: Arianna Huffington, thank you. That your post dinner routine is so important to how you rest. Like you should be ramping into your rest a lot earlier. It’s not just like, “Oh, now I’m in bed, it’s now time for bed.” Your actually your bedtime routine take a lot longer than you think it does because your body takes a lot longer to unwind. And so, this activity of just turning off my computer before dinner was the first step of like, “Ok, now I’m unwinding. Now I ahhh.” Right?

Joshua: Am I reading you right that you didn’t have an evening routine or that whatever evening routine you had, this made it a whole other level? It was like a discrete break between the day and the evening.

Emily: Correct.

Joshua: Now, since it’s Emily Ann Peterson that I’m talking to I have to ask was there bravery involved in this?

Emily: Oh, totally. Because the week that we’re doing this right now is a very big week for me. Like I have so many projects that are going on and so many important projects, not just busy projects, it’s not like… This is legitimately big huge projects for my clients and for myself and for my own career. And so it did take a ton of bravery to just say if anything happens between now and whenever I go to sleep, if it needs me to jump into it, it can wait till the morning.

Joshua: Oh man, that’s physically what you did. What about emotionally? How did it go?

Emily: Good question.

Joshua: Could you handle it? Were you freaked out?

Emily: I think like the first couple nights that I did it, it was emotionally a little on the anxiety triggering part. But it was like it lasted like maybe ten seconds.

Joshua: You mean you turn it off and you went like, “Ah! Well, it’s not a big deal.” Like that?

Emily: Yeah, it was the five seconds before I did it and then the five seconds afterwards that it was like, “Do I really have to do this? Oh, Gosh. Yeah, I kind of do because I was being held accountable.” Like yeah, I really do because Josh was going to ask me on Friday if I did this thing. Yeah, okay, do it.” And then I did it and then the second that it shut down I be like, “Oh, I can still turn it back on. No, but I’m hungry.” And so, I would make dinner and then nothing would happen.

Joshua: All the fears were unfounded.

Emily: Yeah, exactly, like no big projects came up, no emergencies came up and yeah. And if an emergency had come up, I could have turned the computer back on. It’s not the end of the world. Right?

Joshua: And you also didn’t get on social media and you didn’t waste a lot of time doing whatever. I mean you don’t waste time. But I find it’s very easy to waste time on the computer in the evening.

Emily: Oh, totally. I mean there was still wasting of time happening on my phone. But that’s part of my evening routine is that then that’s when I get to enjoy being connected instead of working through my connection if that makes sense.

Joshua: Yeah, you know the pattern that you’re talking about, the pattern you describe is very similar to the pattern that I see with a lot of people with the other environment when they do things. They’re also like freaked out and then they do it and it’s not a big deal. That’s about some of them. Some of them it is a big deal and then they have to go back to the drawing board and figure out how am I going to make this work which I really like when it’s someone, say, who’s written a book and he’s like, “Here’s how you do X, here’s how you do Y. It’s really simple. Just do it.” And then they do it and it’s like not so easy. Like I got this guy. He’s like a marine, does ultramarathons all around the world. And his goal was to not eat package food for a week. Can’t make it, like oh, landmines finding out in Afghanistan. Not so hard. I think that’s great for listeners because some listeners are thinking, “Oh, why should I bother trying? Like these superhuman people they can do it but I can’t do it.” But I like that people share that they’re human, they’re like… You’re also like “Brave, brave, brave, brave, I’m scared to do this!”

Emily: Oh, yeah. But here’s the thing that I noticed you know and this relates to you know we were talking a little bit previously about how courage is contagious and how bravery you just can’t help but be spread. You know when you see something inspiring that somebody else is doing. But it happens internally too which is what I noticed and that actually did make it in my book which is interesting. Well I guess it did.

Joshua: Listeners, you heard it here first.

Emily: I know I’m talking myself in and out of things. But it did prove the fact that like the more you practice bravery, the more or the easier it is to do brave things. And that did make it in my book. And so in this instance what I noticed was that like a couple days into it I was kind of looking for other things to attach to that moment of the day. So like either a ritual of washing my hands just kind of like to physically and emotionally cleanse myself of the workday or a ritual like I just love rituals just really think when you add intention and meaning to them it empowers you in a really kind of a spiritual…

Joshua: Oh, yeah, I mean like a hundred thousand plus burpees like I like ritual.

Emily: Oh, yeah. But it was that kind of stuff that I was like, “Oh, what else can I put at that moment?” Like turn off the computer maybe it could be like the moment I turn off my computer is the chance that I get to read a chapter of the book that I’ve been going through for dinner or maybe it’s the moment that I call a friend just to chat and say “Hey” or like… So those are some of the other ideas that came to mind that was like what if I could use that moment of like pre-dinner, post-work pre-dinner to make my life better.

Joshua: Cleanse or break or yeah…

Emily: Totally.

Joshua: So now you have time to think. I mean at this stage, what’s been a week now, have you figured out like what is going to be in that stage or are you still kind of letting it happen?

Emily: It’s interesting I’m because now I’m going into book launch and book tour mode so I’m not going to be behind my computer as often as I have been previously. But I do like the idea of a pre-dinner routine. And so yeah, I’m considering building more things that I can do when I’m on the road as well because that’s the other thing is that you know your routines change whenever you travel. And I know you mentioned this last week that that a lot of times travel has been the thing that’s gotten in the way of your previous challengees.

Joshua: Yes.

Emily: What have they done?

Joshua: Oh, man. It’s two big ones, they are other people and travel. So let’s see what have people done? I mean sometimes they just kind of give up on it. Like if they’re doing something not eating meat or packaged food… I mean the big things are either you stick with it no matter what and then you have to involve the other people and you’ve to tell them, you know, “I’m not going to eat what you brought out” or something like that. But you have to figure out how to communicate with them. And the other one is you say, “Oh, OK, this one didn’t work out so I’m not doing at 100 percent but I’m not going to let it slide either. Like I’m not just going to give up.” So OK I want to have, say, no meat for this month. All right. I had a hamburger when I was at my aunt’s house. And, I don’t know, for me I go the first way. Well, actually on some things I go the first way like with meat I’ll skip meals before I eat meat if that’s…It’s never been the case. I’ve never had to skip a meal because there’s no meat, there was always something. But with packaging I’ll get some package things here and there I mean way less than before. Like I haven’t had bottled water in a long, long… I’ve no idea when it was. Like that zero. But either way I think the second one is more interesting when people say, “I’m not going to let it get me down, I’m not going to let it. Like OK yeah. This is what happens sometimes. And then let me see how I can learn from the experience.”

Emily: Well, I would say because when you’re traveling and touring on the road as a musician typically when you’re on your travel days the middle of your day is not lounge around, wait for things to happen. The middle of your day is spent actually traveling. So like at the airport or on a bus or you’re driving the bus or whatever.

And then once you get to the venue or once you get to the place that you’re performing at that’s the time. Like you have like this sweet two hours between your soundcheck and between when you have to get on the stage where you can actually get work done. So I’ve been on tours before. We’re like the hours between… The hours that we’re talking about here like 6 and 9 PM are the best, like the only times that you have to work. And so I can see how if I made myself a rigid rule of my computer is off after 7:00 PM that that would actually hurt my career in a big way. And so, I would want to install some other kind of ritual post-performance to incorporate that same kind of unwinding into the evening.

Joshua: Well, if you’re about to go on the road I guess not for music but for the book I would love to have you back on to share how things work out because this is the sort of thing that you can plan because most stuff is unforeseeable. And I think listeners would benefit from hearing how did it go.

Emily: Sure. I’m happy to do that because I’m curious too. Because at this point I’m seeing that like yeah, I’m saving like a minuscule amount of electricity by having my computer off or not plugged into the wall. But what I’ve benefited is that unwinding portion of the evening and so I think that’s the thing that I would want to experiment with when on tour is how can I incorporate a more elongated, more intentional unwinding of my evening so that I can be more present so that I can have a better life and help other people have a better life too because of it.

Joshua: So I’d love to hear how it goes. I want to follow up on a couple of things you said before. One of them was bravery spreads. Has this practice translated? Has it made a jump to other people? Have people observed differences in you and have you shared with other people?

Emily: Possibly. I mean I’ve made more phone calls or like you know face-timed with my sisters and nieces but they didn’t know that that was happening as a result of this choice of mine. And I think that’s actually a pretty interesting commentary is that you know the world doesn’t have to know, like you don’t have to be on your own soapbox announcing how good you are about your changes in your life. You can just allow those changes to naturally unfold and you can naturally allow people to benefit from them.

Joshua: Yeah, I guess you have the choice – you can go that way or you can tell them.

Emily: Yeah, totally. I didn’t tell anybody. Just because even though I’m like just wrote a book that was kind of a vulnerable tell-all of brave moments of myself and my life I’m mostly a private person. So I didn’t tell anybody that I was like doing this new habit or trying this new thing out, which is interesting.

Joshua: I feel like I connect with something satisfying in you. Certainly, there’s something about what I’m reading… There’s something about ritual but I feel like that what… Is it about harmony? Or is it about… Like it feels like that’s something is connecting with a value of yours.

Emily: Yeah, I think it’s connecting with being aligned with who you are, like my values is that I appreciate actually being connected with somebody and being real and authentic and generous and creative. And so, by not being connected to these massive big work projects I actually had the space to rehearse my songs and talk to my sisters and talk to some friends and make a better meal or feel more present of mine to make a better meal for myself and nourish myself. And even having more time in the day, in the evening to do all these things, I was feeling more generous with my time. So it actually made me feel more aligned with who I truly am.

Joshua: So I’ve been holding back on connecting your experience with how things go with people who do stuff environmental specifically you know polluting less or that sort of thing. Because the way you spoke about what it connects with it’s other people. You’re not thinking about like you’re not putting the computer off in front of you and looking at the computer like, “Oh, I wish I could do that. I wish I could do that.” You’re filling it with other things that are more valuable to you than the computer. And this is what happens over and over again with people is they think, “Oh, this is going to be difficult to you know not have to package food or not to fly” or something like that. Actually, no one else besides me has done the not flying. So I should use example… Well, even for me with not flying it’s not about not flying, it’s about yes, local community. And you’re having this experience and the same thing, several things that you said are very similar. It’s like it’s hard at first and then oh, it’s a lot easier than I thought. And the fears that I had have not been realized to the point where it’s so similar an experience for you as I’m hearing it, this is my impression, that I have to say since you said you’re willing to go again, I want to invite you at your option to take on something a different one that’s more like the environment that I normally think of.

Emily: Yeah, totally, I’m totally in.

Joshua: Ok, cool. What makes you so willing?

Emily: Because I care about it. Like because doing something like that would also align with who I truly am. So, the decision although like in application would might be difficult the decision to make my environment on a global scale a little bit better even just by micro amount, that decision would still align with me fully.


Joshua: So, listeners are used to hearing me say this. What I find is not the size… You were like, “Micro”. It’s not the size of the initial action, it’s “Does the person act or not?” And if they act, the next one is going to be bigger. And I hope people listening are getting the idea. Whether you start with… If it’s fair to say what you’re doing was a personal growth exercise. I don’t want to put words in your mouth but if you want to grow personally starting with something in the environment, acting on an environmental value is a pretty effective way to do it. Likewise, if you wanted something for the environment starting with some personal growth like this it’s very easy to crossover from one to other, it’s very similar social and emotional skills that you’re putting into practice here. So, people who are listening if you’re looking to develop yourself as a leader or as whatever to become more brave or something like that and you’re not sure where to go but you care about the environment, well start with environment and you’ll find yourself easy to switch over to something else. And if you want to do something environmentally but you are not really sure but you know people around you are like doing yoga or something like that…

Emily: Yeah. I totally agree with this because what I have seen so you know as we discussed earlier my previous career was a cello teacher before I got intrigued by this bravery stuff and wrote a book about it and all this stuff. And so, I know from experience, so many years of experience that when a student practices some of these skills that we apply to an instrument, that later on they would have like let’s say, let’s use a really difficult piece, they would use one practiced technique is to chunk it up into tiny parts and practice the tiny parts one by one. Okay, so then like two years later after they’ve been playing cello for forever, then they have a really crazy [unintelligible] week at work and I’ve had, this has happened so many times, I’ve had students or other clients come to me after the fact and go, “Oh, my gosh, you’ll never believe it. But I tried that Chunking method on my week or my to-do list or my crazy stressful family life. And it worked! It worked! It’s amazing!” And it’s totally true that these are skills that you can apply to anything. Anything.

Joshua: Yeah, I have this coaching client he was…I like trying to get him to learn some stuff about how to lead people and he’s going on vacation with his family and he’s talking about how his son is annoying and I said, “Do it with your son.” And I’m not going to go all the details and he comes back after two weeks, he’s like, “My son was acting up and I did that stuff and like my wife also noticed it was awesome. My son looks at me and he is like, “Whoa, that’s interesting. My dad never talked to me like that.” He’s like he likes it. And then I was like, “OK, what you did with your son now do that with all your employees.” And he’s like, “Oh my God!” So you know it only takes a couple times to do that, to get like these social and emotional skills of relationships skills and that they apply, as you say, everywhere in all your relationships.

Emily: But I would also say that you know if you are facing something that is really difficult, like say for instance, I have a marketing client come to me and they are facing like the fact that their business is shutting down and they’re just like really scared to make this big scary pivot. Well, I would ask them to pick something that doesn’t feel so brave, that feels like kind of easy and apply the same technique to that thing first just so that they can experiment and kind of use that smaller not scary version as a sandbox for how this big version, big scary version might play out.

Joshua: Yeah, [unintelligible].

Emily: Totally. Right.

Joshua: And another thing is when I hear people say, “Yeah, I could do X – avoid packaged food – or I could do X – I could bring bags with me to the store – but if I do that and no one else does, then it doesn’t make a difference.” I’m like, “You just missed an opportunity to develop and grow as a person.” Like that’s why I try to make this… Yes, it’s the environmental effect of lowering your pollution or lowering your emissions or something like that. That’s the side effect. That’s not what I’m going for. I think that’s what I’ll achieve. What I’m going for is living by your values and living by value is like evaluate better or worse. It means living a better life. And I crave for the show to take off so that people are like, “Oh, this is what a great way to improve my life is I can just…” Most people want clean air and clean water. I haven’t listened to one who doesn’t. And it’s an area where we can act and develop these skills and then suddenly they apply everywhere.

Emily: But I think it’s important and you’ve said this before too that it’s important for you to do something for yourself before you do it for somebody, before you do it out of guilt for something else.

Joshua: It’s your value, yeah. If someone says to me, “Yeah, environment – that’s not really a big deal for me.” I’m like, all right, well, then I don’t do the invitation to take on a challenge because then I’m coercing them or trying to… That’s not my goal. And I wouldn’t do this if I didn’t think that a majority of people wanted more clean air and clean water and clean land in the world. Leadership for me it’s accessing motivations that are already there. If they’re not already there, that’s management I guess, authoritarian or some like that. But that’s not… It’s you’re doing something that you wanted to do or that’s valuable for you and you do it for you not for me, not for the world and it’s going to lead to that anyway.

Emily: Well, and I know so about with bravery when it comes to brave things I’ve noticed that people will do difficult things, feats of bravery. Mostly, I mean there’s three big reasons. One that it’s contagious, that we’ve already talked about. Second is that someone else needs them to do it. So, they feel either obligated or inspired or somebody truly is like in a life or death situation and the only thing that will save them is if you do the brave thing. And then the third reason is because it’s worth it like that the thing on the other side of the feat of bravery is worth it. But we’re touching on a really good point that like when all three of those things align or match up usually what ends up happening is that you’re doing it for your own self.

Joshua: Now, the way you’re saying this sounds like something’s a key part of your book and I wonder if there’s a story or something that is connected with what you’re sharing of how of you or your client kind of how they’ve gotten across that challenge to themselves or to yourself.

Emily: I don’t have a specific example of this just because I’ve seen it so many times but like, say for instance, you’re facing something really brave like I always go to like getting a divorce just because that’s kind of a big hairy subject you know and you know it’s something that you need to do. And you know it’s something that you deep down kind of want to do just because it’s been a big pain in your, you know like the bad marriage is not helping you or anyone else. But if suddenly you had other people involved in that situation like your kids, like their schoolwork was suffering because of your poor marriage, that would give you more reason to you know sign the paperwork if suddenly someone said, “Hey, the love of your life is ready and waiting for to like marry you. But you’re over here still married to this schmuck over here.” Any of you won’t sign the divorce papers? But like your best life is on the other side. All you have to do is sign these divorce papers that’ll give you more reason to do the brave thing and sign the divorce papers.

But, ultimately, I think if you know that it’s worth it, that you are doing it for your own reasons, then doing something difficult is going to be easier. So, basically, like the more you can find answers to those three reasons because it’s contagious, because it’s needed by someone else and because you know it’s worth it that doing that feat of bravery will suddenly feel easier. But I think a lot of times people face their feats of bravery without asking those questions. They’ll just say, “Oh my gosh, this is so crazy. I can’t do this thing.” But if they don’t ask like, “Hey, who needs me to do this thing?” or “Why is the doing this thing worth it?” “Or how can I make doing this thing feel contagious and easy?” If they don’t answer those questions, then that feat of bravery will still feel like a big hairy monster.

Joshua: I can hear the voice of experience of having worked, with having gotten through these challenges before and how to make it so that they can face these feats of bravery with more enthusiasm, expectation of success. And if they get your book, they’ll be able to go step by step of like how to develop the skills to do these things.

Emily: And I also in my book it’s less of me telling stories about other people going through these situations and more about me going to them personally. And so, the way I’ve chosen to write it is like in a practice what I preach kind of way like saying these things and divulging these stories is a brave thing for me to do because just like I said I’m not usually shouting my personal details from the rooftops. And I think it actually made like that bravery is an example of how it actually made the book better because it feels more personal rather than a textbook of, “Hey, this is the description of bravery.” No, this is how we know because of we collectively, me and you, know that these things are true because here let me show you how it worked in my own life and you do the same thing with this show and with your work as well like you do a fantastic job of connecting people to the personal reasons why they are wanting to change their lives and the rest of the world.

Joshua: Now you’re making me blush and I’m going blush back because I am going to put in the two words about the kind of bravery that you talked about in your book it’s bare naked. Right?

Emily: Yeah, exactly.

Joshua: Buy the book and see Emily Ann Peterson bare and naked, and bare, naked and brave.

Emily: Yeah, yeah.

Joshua: You said environment is something you care about you are on a roll from the computer environment. What’s an environment environment value that comes to mind?

Emily: Okay. So when I am traveling and I’m doing this book tour thing you know the travel is something that I can’t avoid but I can avoid some of that packaged food stuff that you’re talking about. Like that’s a perfect example of you know when you’re on the road a lot of times it’s just easier to go to fast food or to packaged foods when you’re on the road. It’s just easier to do.

Joshua: Yeah, I’m so far from that that I’m like, “Is it?”

Emily: Oh, it is. I mean because you’re stopping at a gas station every so often and so it’s just natural to go into the gas station. And what is in a gas station? Packaged food. Like all of it is just packaged food.

Joshua: So I’m going to make sure that you listen to this later after you go through this because you’re going to say, “I call that natural?”

Emily: Oh, I know. I already know. I already know. It’s one of those things that’s like when you get off when I get, at least when I have gotten off of the road I’m like looking forward to having real food because it’s just been like weeks of succumbing to whatever’s available which is awful. But so here’s what I want to do and try out. I would like to try out one meal of no packaged foods on all of my travel days.

Joshua: OK. So how long are you traveling for?

Emily: Oh, it will be a long time that I’ll be on the road. It won’t be constant traveling the whole time because I go slowly throughout the country. But, yeah, it will be a while.

Joshua: I’ve learned leadership without management doesn’t work that well. So, leadership with management works very well. So can we make it a SMART goal? So can we make it more specific? You’re pretty specific of saying each day that you’re traveling. Does that mean if you’re traveling Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and you’re home Thursday, Friday and then you’re traveling again Saturday, Sunday does that mean Thursday and Friday you’re not… Oh, then you’re home…

Emily: Well, then I’m home and I’m not doing packaged foods in general like fast food that kind of gross stuff so I’m not doing that kind of stuff.

Joshua: So is it specifically days when you’re on the road?

Emily: Yeah.

Joshua: OK. And how long do you think it’ll take before either you’re done traveling or that you’ve gotten in the rhythm enough that you have something to share with the listeners and that maybe it’s become second nature?

Emily: Let’s do… Do you want a date? Is that what you’re looking for?

Joshua: Yeah. I mean effectively.

Emily: Yeah. I would say if we do March 1.

Joshua: Ok, so that’s five weeks.

Emily: Yeah.

Joshua: OK. And let’s [unintelligible] I think does that feel like there’s anything missing from that? Like I think it’s pretty specific. I think it’s specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, time.

Emily: Yeah.

Joshua: So we’ve got the time, we’ve got specific, it seems realistic.

Emily: It is realistic what it’s going to take from me is an occasional trip to a grocery store rather than going to just sticking to the frontage roads of America. That’s you know like also completely doable because it’s not like I’ve never been to a grocery store before.

Joshua: I’ll give you a story and a couple of things that have worked for me.

Emily: Please.

Joshua: At your option, I’m not advising you, I’m just saying these are some things that come to mind. So one of them is that when I was in Charlottesville a couple of months ago I’m meeting late and I had to hurry to catch the train back to New York. And I asked them, “Is there a grocery store around?” And they said, “Yes.” So I went to the grocery store, I walk in and it’s like a tiny grocery store and it’s all packaged food except there’s some products in the front. And I’m thinking, “I’m not going to get the packaged stuff.” So I’m looking at the vegetables and fruits and I am thinking, “I am hungry and a fruit won’t satisfy.” It’s like this isn’t like an apple thing. I’m skipping dinner so I got I think it was three zucchinis and a mango and then went to the bathroom and washed them. And at first, I thought, “Who eats zucchini? That’s weird.” Even for me that seems weird. And then I thought you know if I’m at a cocktail party and there’s hummus you know zucchini is like a raw zucchini is one of the things that will sometimes be there. Eat your zucchini, no problem. So I just ate the zucchini on the train. No mess. It was really easy. And it turns out zucchini is really sweet if you just eat it plain. I didn’t realize how sweet it is. So that’s one thing.

And another is here’s an easy thing: I don’t know about you, I have a bulk food store near me so I can get oats. See to me it would be really easy to just have breakfast. Me, if I go to the store with my own bag and get the oats and then oats you can put them in your bag, I bring oats with me when I go to travel because that way I can have a breakfast. And throw a couple apples in there, throw a couple of nuts in there and I got breakfast. No packaging necessary. And for me it would be like an easy way to make that meal your breakfast. But you’re…It would fit. So yeah, I usually try to bring it like that easy breakfast when I travel.

Emily: Well, yeah. The thing about America now is that there’s going to be a grocery store with a bulk food section in a convenient place like for the majority of the U.S. So what I know ahead of time is that it’s just going to take a little bit of extra planning to say, “Oh, OK, every big city I drive through I need to stop and make sure that I catch up on my supplies.”

Joshua: Fill up on my oats.

Emily: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Joshua: Right. I’m getting on my calendar and I’m going to March 1 and so that’s Thursday and it’s open for me. Should we pick the same time as today on that day?

Emily: Sure. Noon?

Joshua: Yeah, or 3:00 PM for me.

Emily: I’m looking forward to this.

Joshua: Me too. And I really want to hear how the transition… Like I have a feeling there’s going to be a lot of common. You’re going to say, “Wow, it’s almost the same thing as that thing with the computer.”

Emily: I already know it, yeah.

Joshua: I’m also curious if the computer thing sticks.

Emily: I can also tell that I’m probably going to want to do it for more meals on you know maybe not every day but on a lot of the days I can tell I’m going to be like, “Well, it doesn’t sound very good. I’m going to just have trail mix or something.

Joshua: So I want to hear how this goes. So I’m going to talk you again soon. And before we wrap up, is there anything I didn’t think to ask that’s worth asking?

Emily: I don’t think so because now I’m just excited to try this next thing out.

Joshua: Me too. I can’t wait to hear it. And is there any message like anything to say directly to the listeners of words of wisdom or thoughts or anything like that?

Emily: Well, I’m just looking forward to applying some of these environmental concepts in my own teachings of bravery here on out to just connect this bravery education and these bravery practices and pull it into like, “OK and if you do this inside of yourself and for yourself, then this affects everything on the outside as well.” So I’m looking forward to… Yeah, I’m looking forward to applying all of this personally. So it’s less of like, “Hey, you guys, there’s no like real message that I have.” I’m just excited about, at least with regards to the environmental stuff, I’m just excited to apply this to my own people too.

Joshua: Awesome. I hope people listening are thinking, “I don’t want to just want to hear hers. I want to do mine and find out my own.” So everyone commit to your personal challenge. And then do you know where you’re going to be for people who are listening? Because hopefully this should come out the next couple days.

Emily: First of all, I do house concerts and so if you’re interested in hosting me for a house concert in your living room or in your house, let me know, let me and my people know. All that information’s on my website under the tab attend. There’s like an info spot for host a concert. That ends up being really fun so we could have like an intentional evening of talking about bravery and then connect and then give you a selfie, give Joshua a selfie.

Joshua: And if you give a dinner first, then she won’t be on the computer at the same time.

Emily: Exactly. Yeah. And all of the tour dates and other event details are also on my website as well. So emilyannpeterson.com.

Joshua: OK. So everyone go to emilyannpeterson.com. And then let’s wrap up and then I will talk to you again. Well, we’re going to go back and forth about posting this and making sure that people like your book and then we’ll talk again. How exciting is that?

Emily: Oh my gosh. I’m thrilled. Just like to the moon through the roof. I’m so excited.

Joshua: Awesome. And I know that that’s as much as you wrote it for your own internal stuff, you wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t going to be valuable for the readers.

Emily: Oh, totally. I just wrote an e-mail to my own team of you know supporters and book launch team basically and was just saying how much I have already received unsolicited heart wrenching thank you’s from people who are really got in the thick of it and they’re really grateful that the book is out there and that they were able to read it. And so, it just goes to show you that like sometimes when you choose to do something brave, in my instance just like writing this book was a great thing to do, that it really does affect the entire world on a global scale.

Joshua: Awesome. Everyone, after you read it get back in touch with her too and tell her how it went. Because it’s such a lonely process to write and so hard to market.

Emily: Well, it’s so wonderful to connect the feedback loop.

Joshua: Yeah. OK. I’ll talk to you again in about five weeks. And when we hang up we’re going to hang up because I want the listeners to get everything.

Emily: OK, cool. OK. See you later. Bye.

Joshua: Talk to you again soon. Bye.


People tend to think of taking on a challenge as something hard that it’s too much to ask for, too much to do. In Emily’s case starting lead to more enjoyment and based on her experience, on her knowing more. Before she did it she kind of was expecting it would go well but she didn’t really know. It went really well, it sounded to me. She made it more than habitual to ritual. It was something that she was making… To me it sounded like a central part of her life. It improved her connection to people, to her family, she got closer to them. And now she wants to do more so she’s taking on more challenges based on her experience of having done it. If you’re thinking about taking on a challenge, now’s the time. Improve your life, improve your relationships, and as a side effect I think you’ll improve the environment.

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